Comments on: Joe O’Donnell and WEEI http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/ Media, Baseball, Boston, the Red Sox, Music, Literature, and Mnookins Mon, 08 Sep 2008 05:29:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Seth Mnookin http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-129 Seth Mnookin Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:38:44 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-129 Hey, Nordberg and Bring Back Pedro -- I'm shutting down the debate about Pedro and whether or not he should have been re-signed; it's getting nasty, and I'm betting neither of you are going to change the other one's minds... s. Hey, Nordberg and Bring Back Pedro — I’m shutting down the debate about Pedro and whether or not he should have been re-signed; it’s getting nasty, and I’m betting neither of you are going to change the other one’s minds…

s.

]]> By: Rick http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-121 Rick Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:35:21 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-121 Pedro: The Mets knew what Pedro was really worth, probably about what the RS figured. But they overpaid because they had extra value from Pedro: more butts in the seats, more hype around the team, buzz about the new TV network, get more free agents to come to NY Mets. All of which was worth for them to overpay him even given his diminishing returns. Only if the above didn't happen for the Mets was it a bad investment, which of course it turned out good for them. The RS didn't have that extra value with Pedro, so he was only valued at what he could do on the field. Don't think Pedro didn't know all this, he did and his agent did too. The issue with stars leaving is that the fans think that the players will perform at the highest level for the length of any contract, regardless of their age. Not typically true. Let's see Johnny and Pedro in the last year or two of their contracts and see what the end result is. I hated losing Johnny but I understand he wasn't worth the money the Yankees can afford to pay. It's always about the money, forget the hometown discount and the "goodwill" for the club by keeping aging stars. Pedro: The Mets knew what Pedro was really worth, probably about what the RS figured. But they overpaid because they had extra value from Pedro: more butts in the seats, more hype around the team, buzz about the new TV network, get more free agents to come to NY Mets. All of which was worth for them to overpay him even given his diminishing returns. Only if the above didn’t happen for the Mets was it a bad investment, which of course it turned out good for them. The RS didn’t have that extra value with Pedro, so he was only valued at what he could do on the field. Don’t think Pedro didn’t know all this, he did and his agent did too.

The issue with stars leaving is that the fans think that the players will perform at the highest level for the length of any contract, regardless of their age. Not typically true. Let’s see Johnny and Pedro in the last year or two of their contracts and see what the end result is. I hated losing Johnny but I understand he wasn’t worth the money the Yankees can afford to pay. It’s always about the money, forget the hometown discount and the “goodwill” for the club by keeping aging stars.

]]> By: Bring Back Pedro http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-117 Bring Back Pedro Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:36:35 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-117 Pedro Martinez has allowed 3 runs in 22 innings against the Yankees since leaving. So much for that excuse. You are correct, there was not much available in 2004, which means Pedro's value was even greater than what the Mets offered. How come no Mets fan will say that they overpaid for Pedro? Only Sox fans? Could it be that Sox fans are making excuses for one of the worst moves in team history? Mets overpaid for Pedro the way the Yankees overpaid for Babe Ruth and Reggie Jackson. Theo is to blame. Pedro Martinez has allowed 3 runs in 22 innings against the Yankees since leaving. So much for that excuse.

You are correct, there was not much available in 2004, which means Pedro’s value was even greater than what the Mets offered.

How come no Mets fan will say that they overpaid for Pedro? Only Sox fans? Could it be that Sox fans are making excuses for one of the worst moves in team history?

Mets overpaid for Pedro the way the Yankees overpaid for Babe Ruth and Reggie Jackson.

Theo is to blame.

]]> By: Nordberg http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-114 Nordberg Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:18:14 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-114 Yeah, the Sox would have won by 6-7 games had they resigned Pedro. Yeah, right. They would not have been swept by the White Sox. OK, they would have lost in four. First of all, the early playoff exit had more to do with Schilling's injury than Pedro's absence. Second, don't leave out the injury to Foulke, an ineffective bullpen and the lack of bats at first and second. Third, give the White Sox credit. They were better by a mile. they did what the Red Sox did in '04. GET OVER IT!! PEDRO IS DONE. HE WANTED TO LEAVE THE AL EAST BECAUSE THE YANKEES OWN HIM. IT WAS HIS DECISION!! You cannot run a ballclub when you overpay to aging, oft-injured players. HE IS NOT WORTH WHAT THE METS GAVE HIM. DID YOU MISS HIS RETURN TO FENWAY. DID YOU NOT SEE THAT HE'S BACK ON THE DL? He was great in his day, but his day is DONE. He MIGHT have helped last year, but then the Red Sox would be paying him for the next THREE YEARS to sit on the DL. Maybe Clement wasn't the best choice, but there wasn't much available. Yeah, the Sox would have won by 6-7 games had they resigned Pedro. Yeah, right.
They would not have been swept by the White Sox. OK, they would have lost in four.
First of all, the early playoff exit had more to do with Schilling’s injury than Pedro’s absence.
Second, don’t leave out the injury to Foulke, an ineffective bullpen and the lack of bats at first and second.
Third, give the White Sox credit. They were better by a mile. they did what the Red Sox did in ‘04.
GET OVER IT!!
PEDRO IS DONE. HE WANTED TO LEAVE THE AL EAST BECAUSE THE YANKEES OWN HIM.
IT WAS HIS DECISION!!
You cannot run a ballclub when you overpay to aging, oft-injured players. HE IS NOT WORTH WHAT THE METS GAVE HIM.
DID YOU MISS HIS RETURN TO FENWAY. DID YOU NOT SEE THAT HE’S BACK ON THE DL?
He was great in his day, but his day is DONE.
He MIGHT have helped last year, but then the Red Sox would be paying him for the next THREE YEARS to sit on the DL.
Maybe Clement wasn’t the best choice, but there wasn’t much available.

]]> By: behindthepen http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-112 behindthepen Tue, 11 Jul 2006 01:23:33 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-112 shockingly, the EEI crowd showed a basic misunderstading of the financial issues. MLB and Harrington were probably concerned about selling the historic franchise to straight businessmen ... the structure that ODonnell/Karp proposed smelled of a "real estate deal", not of an investment in a baseball legend. It wasn't a question of whether or not O/K could come up with the cash, but they were only going to put up $150 million of the $700 million price, borrowing the rest; whereas the H/W/L group wound up putting up about $400 million of their own money. In the end, it didn't matter because Harrington screwed O'Donnell with the Aramark deal. shockingly, the EEI crowd showed a basic misunderstading of the financial issues.
MLB and Harrington were probably concerned about selling the historic franchise to straight businessmen … the structure that ODonnell/Karp proposed smelled of a “real estate deal”, not of an investment in a baseball legend.
It wasn’t a question of whether or not O/K could come up with the cash, but they were only going to put up $150 million of the $700 million price, borrowing the rest; whereas the H/W/L group wound up putting up about $400 million of their own money.
In the end, it didn’t matter because Harrington screwed O’Donnell with the Aramark deal.

]]> By: Bring Back Pedro http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-106 Bring Back Pedro Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:57:23 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-106 I hope that Mnookin's next book will be entitled: RUNNING THE HALL OF FAMER OUT OF TOWN How Ego and Arrogance Led to Theo Epstein Dismantling a Championship Team. I hope that Mnookin’s next book will be entitled:

RUNNING THE HALL OF FAMER OUT OF TOWN
How Ego and Arrogance Led to Theo Epstein Dismantling a Championship Team.

]]> By: Bring Back Pedro http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-105 Bring Back Pedro Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:55:12 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/07/10/joe-odonnell-and-weei/#comment-105 <b>Theo Epstein's disrespect of Pedro Martinez is unforgivable. He cost the Sox a shot at the title last season, and they would be better this season if they were paying Pedro instead of Clement and Edgar.</b> Why does Theo get a free pass for this horrific mistake, a mistake on par with the Bambino and Rocket? Why did people applaud when the racist young wonderboy gave big money to Matt Clement, a 30+ yr old career .500 pitcher who had never won 15 games in a season, a risky proposition at best? Why did they believe that Matt Clement was better value than the Hall of Famer who had just thrown 7 shutout innings in the world series? Why was Jason Varitek, a player the same age as Pedro who had suffered injury in 2001 just as Pedro did, yet a player who had never played in an All-Star game, a good deal at 4 years but Pedro was not? Why do people continue to give Theo a free pass for this disasterous mistake? No team has ever had a $130 million payroll and failed to win a single playoff game for that season, until last year. Theo was at the helm. As Bronson Arroyo said: "If Theo didn't have such a huge ego, and if he brought back Pedro, we would have won the AL East by 6 or 7 games last season and sure as hell would not have been swept by the White Sox." "Where have you gone Pedro Martinez, a nation turns its lonely hearts to you." - Larry Lucchino Theo, you suck. Theo Epstein’s disrespect of Pedro Martinez is unforgivable. He cost the Sox a shot at the title last season, and they would be better this season if they were paying Pedro instead of Clement and Edgar.

Why does Theo get a free pass for this horrific mistake, a mistake on par with the Bambino and Rocket?

Why did people applaud when the racist young wonderboy gave big money to Matt Clement, a 30+ yr old career .500 pitcher who had never won 15 games in a season, a risky proposition at best? Why did they believe that Matt Clement was better value than the Hall of Famer who had just thrown 7 shutout innings in the world series?

Why was Jason Varitek, a player the same age as Pedro who had suffered injury in 2001 just as Pedro did, yet a player who had never played in an All-Star game, a good deal at 4 years but Pedro was not?

Why do people continue to give Theo a free pass for this disasterous mistake? No team has ever had a $130 million payroll and failed to win a single playoff game for that season, until last year. Theo was at the helm.

As Bronson Arroyo said: “If Theo didn’t have such a huge ego, and if he brought back Pedro, we would have won the AL East by 6 or 7 games last season and sure as hell would not have been swept by the White Sox.”

“Where have you gone Pedro Martinez, a nation turns its lonely hearts to you.” - Larry Lucchino

Theo, you suck.

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