Comments on: The non-trades of 2006, Theo and Larry’s evolving relationship, and the reaction in the clubhouse http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/ Media, Baseball, Boston, the Red Sox, Music, Literature, and Mnookins Sat, 17 May 2008 05:53:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: The Feeding the Monster Blog — In which the author discusses Boston, the Red Sox, the media, and very occasionally popular music. » Why is this night different… http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-121624 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:20:19 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-121624 [...] That’s a silly question, of course: it’s trade deadline season, and for the first time in years, we’re not all wondering where Manny Ramirez is going to be playing come August 1. (More on that — or more on that from years past — later.) Last year, I had plenty to say about the Sox’s trades (er, non-trades), including my claim that Bobby Abreu was little more than an overpaid version of Kevin Youkilis. (Turns out I was being too generous to Abreu.) Despite a MLB-leading record of 64-41, the Red Sox do, unquestionably, have holes; just as unquestionably, the good men and women down on Ye Olde Yawkey Way are scrambling to find ways to fill them. We’ll all hear about whatever does or doesn’t go down soon enough…and there’ll be plenty of time for talking then. [...] […] That’s a silly question, of course: it’s trade deadline season, and for the first time in years, we’re not all wondering where Manny Ramirez is going to be playing come August 1. (More on that — or more on that from years past — later.) Last year, I had plenty to say about the Sox’s trades (er, non-trades), including my claim that Bobby Abreu was little more than an overpaid version of Kevin Youkilis. (Turns out I was being too generous to Abreu.) Despite a MLB-leading record of 64-41, the Red Sox do, unquestionably, have holes; just as unquestionably, the good men and women down on Ye Olde Yawkey Way are scrambling to find ways to fill them. We’ll all hear about whatever does or doesn’t go down soon enough…and there’ll be plenty of time for talking then. […]

]]> by: 2004_champs http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-191 Fri, 04 Aug 2006 20:11:17 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-191 <p>Theo Epstein's mistreatment of Pedro Martinez has significantly hurt our beloved Red Sox. Theo's ego is the reason we sucked last year and are not good this year. Theo should learn to check his ego at the door, he's not a freaking wonderboy. </p> <em>Ok, fine, you've convinced me: now you're cut off. - Seth Theo Epstein’s mistreatment of Pedro Martinez has significantly hurt our beloved Red Sox. Theo’s ego is the reason we sucked last year and are not good this year. Theo should learn to check his ego at the door, he’s not a freaking wonderboy.

Ok, fine, you’ve convinced me: now you’re cut off.

- Seth

]]> by: Dubigedi http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-186 Fri, 04 Aug 2006 02:56:07 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-186 - 2004_champs "Theo needs to learn that Championship opportunities don’t come around often, and to strike when the iron is hot." -The thing is, this team isn't one or two moves away from a championship team, they went 15-1 against the pathetic N.L, take away those games and their record stands at an average 49-44. That type of knee jerk philosophy is what leads to teams getting trapped into going for it all everyear, and ending up with over priced, underperforming older players and lacking younger,cheaper players with more upside (perfect example the Yankees.) "Too bad Theo was too worried about 2008" - You refer to 2008 like it is some silly abstract thing that was stupid to worry about. "and let his ego get in the way of trying to win a ring." -What evidence do you have he let his ego get in the way of wanting to get a ring? Pedro was an aging, potentially injured pitcher that had shown a decline in performance. Theo, and in my mind correctly, that Pedro was declining,and decided not to go past a certain price to replace him. I'm not saying that the Sox should have signed Clement, but rather that it was smart of them not to go to what likely would have been an overpriced deal. -I also love how you talk about Theo's ego like it is a thing that was obviously responsible for the lack of signing Pedro, who everyone knows, has no ego of all to speak of. "Speaking of Theo’s ego, when is Mnooks going to write a book about that beast. Could probably write a 3 volume series about Theo declaring himself a wonderboy and insisting that everybody bow down to his self proclaimed geniusness." - When has Theo ever declared himself a genuis? -Whats with this strong dislike of Theo? - Did you even read the book? - 2004_champs
“Theo needs to learn that Championship opportunities don’t come around often, and to strike when the iron is hot.”
-The thing is, this team isn’t one or two moves away from a championship team, they went 15-1 against the pathetic N.L, take away those games and their record stands at an average 49-44. That type of knee jerk philosophy is what leads to teams getting trapped into going for it all everyear, and ending up with over priced, underperforming older players and lacking younger,cheaper players with more upside (perfect example the Yankees.)
“Too bad Theo was too worried about 2008″
- You refer to 2008 like it is some silly abstract thing that was stupid to worry about.
“and let his ego get in the way of trying to win a ring.”
-What evidence do you have he let his ego get in the way of wanting to get a ring? Pedro was an aging, potentially injured pitcher that had shown a decline in performance. Theo, and in my mind correctly, that Pedro was declining,and decided not to go past a certain price to replace him. I’m not saying that the Sox should have signed Clement, but rather that it was smart of them not to go to what likely would have been an overpriced deal.
-I also love how you talk about Theo’s ego like it is a thing that was obviously responsible for the lack of signing Pedro, who everyone knows, has no ego of all to speak of.
“Speaking of Theo’s ego, when is Mnooks going to write a book about that beast. Could probably write a 3 volume series about Theo declaring himself a wonderboy and insisting that everybody bow down to his self proclaimed geniusness.”
- When has Theo ever declared himself a genuis?
-Whats with this strong dislike of Theo?
- Did you even read the book?

]]> by: dannyg http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-183 Wed, 02 Aug 2006 19:09:43 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-183 While an admitted Theo guy, I'm a bigger Sox fan and tried to look at the trading deadline objectively. 1) Any deal that trades Lester for another starter, let's say Oswalt, may upgrade the current number 3 starter position, but it still leaves the 4 and 5 slots the debacle they currently are. So, this move in no way assured a 2006 championship. And I find it curious that the "but that's in the National League" refrain is constantly used when evaluating pitchers who move between leagues (usually when one wants to disparage their past or current NL performance), but no has mentioned that in their "Oswalt as 2006 savior" commentaries. 2) If the deal included two relief pitchers (Hansen and Delcarmen reportedly), it depletes an already thin bullpen. So Oswalt goes 6 or 7 innings and leaves ahead 4-2, and the bullpen turns it into a 5-4 or 6-4 deficit before we can get to Papelbon. What then? 2) If the deal included one of said relief picthers, bullpen depth issue still applies, but to a lesser degree, and who plays center if Crisp was going? Wily Mo? So who plays right now with Nixon down? Kapler? David Murphy? Who's on the bench then? Bring back Willie Harris? The deal would impact the starting 9 and especially bench depth in 2006 and beyond, which impacts ability to win 3) The one move I'm critical of is Craig Wilson. The Sox had more to offer than Shawn "7.00 ERA" Chacon. The bench was thin before the Nixon and Varitek injuries, it's thinner now. He could have helped impact 2006 without impacting the future. Theo missed on this one. P.S. Has anyone noticed Seanez ERA is down to 3.83, while Hansen's is up to 4.91? Time to give Tavarez the Rudy treatment and put him on ice for a couple weeks, while we see if Rudy has found it? Can't hurt. While an admitted Theo guy, I’m a bigger Sox fan and tried to look at the trading deadline objectively. 1) Any deal that trades Lester for another starter, let’s say Oswalt, may upgrade the current number 3 starter position, but it still leaves the 4 and 5 slots the debacle they currently are. So, this move in no way assured a 2006 championship. And I find it curious that the “but that’s in the National League” refrain is constantly used when evaluating pitchers who move between leagues (usually when one wants to disparage their past or current NL performance), but no has mentioned that in their “Oswalt as 2006 savior” commentaries. 2) If the deal included two relief pitchers (Hansen and Delcarmen reportedly), it depletes an already thin bullpen. So Oswalt goes 6 or 7 innings and leaves ahead 4-2, and the bullpen turns it into a 5-4 or 6-4 deficit before we can get to Papelbon. What then? 2) If the deal included one of said relief picthers, bullpen depth issue still applies, but to a lesser degree, and who plays center if Crisp was going? Wily Mo? So who plays right now with Nixon down? Kapler? David Murphy? Who’s on the bench then? Bring back Willie Harris? The deal would impact the starting 9 and especially bench depth in 2006 and beyond, which impacts ability to win 3) The one move I’m critical of is Craig Wilson. The Sox had more to offer than Shawn “7.00 ERA” Chacon. The bench was thin before the Nixon and Varitek injuries, it’s thinner now. He could have helped impact 2006 without impacting the future. Theo missed on this one.

P.S. Has anyone noticed Seanez ERA is down to 3.83, while Hansen’s is up to 4.91? Time to give Tavarez the Rudy treatment and put him on ice for a couple weeks, while we see if Rudy has found it? Can’t hurt.

]]> by: crimsonohsix http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-180 Wed, 02 Aug 2006 13:40:00 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-180 I understand Theo's concern for trading away future stars, but is it just me or is he treating all of his young players/prospects like the next Roger Clemens? Instead of being driven by a fear of pleasing the fans like most GMs, he seems to be driven by a fear of trading away the next star. If you think about it, they can't ALL be stars - the prospect market is much more efficient now than it was five years ago due to more teams using a sabermetric approach to scouting (resulting in the competitive advantage these teams have being lower than in previous years), and even five years ago, Billy Beane's top prospects didn't all achieve stardom. If it's possible, I would argue that Theo's being irrational in treating some of his younger players as "untouchable." For the right price, anyone should be trade-able (except Ortiz). I understand Theo’s concern for trading away future stars, but is it just me or is he treating all of his young players/prospects like the next Roger Clemens? Instead of being driven by a fear of pleasing the fans like most GMs, he seems to be driven by a fear of trading away the next star.

If you think about it, they can’t ALL be stars - the prospect market is much more efficient now than it was five years ago due to more teams using a sabermetric approach to scouting (resulting in the competitive advantage these teams have being lower than in previous years), and even five years ago, Billy Beane’s top prospects didn’t all achieve stardom.

If it’s possible, I would argue that Theo’s being irrational in treating some of his younger players as “untouchable.” For the right price, anyone should be trade-able (except Ortiz).

]]> by: eshepard http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-178 Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:19:14 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-178 I agree with empirionx3 to some extent - if Craig Wilson is available for a player about to be released and a bucket of warm tar, I'd rather we made that deal and spun him off in a 3-way if we feel that the role is blocked on our roster. <blockquote>Always competitive, never winning it all.</blockquote> Uh. I agree with empirionx3 to some extent - if Craig Wilson is available for a player about to be released and a bucket of warm tar, I’d rather we made that deal and spun him off in a 3-way if we feel that the role is blocked on our roster.

Always competitive, never winning it all.

Uh.

]]> by: 2004_champs http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-177 Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:10:49 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/01/the-non-trades-of-2006-theo-and-larrys-evolving-relationship-and-the-reaction-in-the-clubhouse/#comment-177 zoowah, great post. Theo needs to learn that Championship opportunities don't come around often, and to strike when the iron is hot. You think Pedro would be an extra arm that could have pushed the Sox over the edge this year, and perhaps last? I do. Too bad Theo was too worried about 2008 and Pedro potentially not being amazing and let his ego get in the way of trying to win a ring. Speaking of Theo's ego, when is Mnooks going to write a book about that beast. Could probably write a 3 volume series about Theo declaring himself a wonderboy and insisting that everybody bow down to his self proclaimed geniusness. zoowah, great post. Theo needs to learn that Championship opportunities don’t come around often, and to strike when the iron is hot.

You think Pedro would be an extra arm that could have pushed the Sox over the edge this year, and perhaps last? I do. Too bad Theo was too worried about 2008 and Pedro potentially not being amazing and let his ego get in the way of trying to win a ring.

Speaking of Theo’s ego, when is Mnooks going to write a book about that beast. Could probably write a 3 volume series about Theo declaring himself a wonderboy and insisting that everybody bow down to his self proclaimed geniusness.

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