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Comments on: Yo, Josh: Shut up and listen (Or: welcome to the ESPN cover curse) http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/ Media, Baseball, Boston, the Red Sox, Music, Literature, and Mnookins Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:41:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Sox Blog - Down and out http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-134457 Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:48:51 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-134457 [...] Does he need to grow up? [...] […] Does he need to grow up? […]

]]> by: The Feeding the Monster Blog — In which the author discusses Boston, the Red Sox, the media, and very occasionally popular music. » Suck it, Jayson Stark (All praise the wobbley knuckler) http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-40685 Fri, 11 May 2007 13:59:33 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-40685 [...] The lack of respect for Wake has been a bit of a bete noire for me as of late, and when I get something stuck in my craw, I’m likely to keep on gnawing on it until I can force it down. I’m thrilled that Beckett seems to have given up the bullheaded ways of his (recent) past. I’m also excited that Schilling appears to be closer to the ‘04 model than the ‘05 model; the Sox need both of these guys to play deep into October. But it would be nice if, instead of another SportsCenter or Baseball Tonight segment on one of these two, or instead of another full-length feature about Dice-K, someone, somewhere (besides here, I mean) decided to highlight a 40-year old pitcher who’s demonstrated the beauty of a skill that looks to be in its twilight years. After all, if you were a kid, wouldn’t you want to get noticed (and paid) for bringing the high heat (even if it resulted in a mediocre record) instead of getting looked over (and underpaid) for quietly making the best hitters in the world look like fools? [...] […] The lack of respect for Wake has been a bit of a bete noire for me as of late, and when I get something stuck in my craw, I’m likely to keep on gnawing on it until I can force it down. I’m thrilled that Beckett seems to have given up the bullheaded ways of his (recent) past. I’m also excited that Schilling appears to be closer to the ‘04 model than the ‘05 model; the Sox need both of these guys to play deep into October. But it would be nice if, instead of another SportsCenter or Baseball Tonight segment on one of these two, or instead of another full-length feature about Dice-K, someone, somewhere (besides here, I mean) decided to highlight a 40-year old pitcher who’s demonstrated the beauty of a skill that looks to be in its twilight years. After all, if you were a kid, wouldn’t you want to get noticed (and paid) for bringing the high heat (even if it resulted in a mediocre record) instead of getting looked over (and underpaid) for quietly making the best hitters in the world look like fools? […]

]]> by: Sox Blog http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-310 Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:17:42 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-310 <strong>Down and out...</strong> ... Down and out…

…

]]> by: trane http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-233 Wed, 09 Aug 2006 01:24:42 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-233 I don't buy the idea that Beckett gets a pass for his look and attitude, while the similarly statted Clement gets hassled for his. Dealing in the first half of '05, Clement looked great out there, just as every effective pitcher looks great. If he'd kept that up we would have given him a smart sounding nickname like "the scientist," or "the brain." Even slouching through the second half, Clement got a pass from fans; right up until his deplorable appearance in game one of the '05 ALCS. He failed that night, and he's done nothing but fail since. That's why he has a bad rep here - dweebiness has nothing to do with it. So far Beckett's won more than he's lost. His stats might be scary, but 13 wins are 13 wins. We'll see how well his tough guy act goes over if he ever fails as spectacularly as Clement has failed since the '05 All Star break. Until that time, I feel pretty good about him. I don’t buy the idea that Beckett gets a pass for his look and attitude, while the similarly statted Clement gets hassled for his. Dealing in the first half of ‘05, Clement looked great out there, just as every effective pitcher looks great. If he’d kept that up we would have given him a smart sounding nickname like “the scientist,” or “the brain.” Even slouching through the second half, Clement got a pass from fans; right up until his deplorable appearance in game one of the ‘05 ALCS. He failed that night, and he’s done nothing but fail since. That’s why he has a bad rep here - dweebiness has nothing to do with it.

So far Beckett’s won more than he’s lost. His stats might be scary, but 13 wins are 13 wins. We’ll see how well his tough guy act goes over if he ever fails as spectacularly as Clement has failed since the ‘05 All Star break. Until that time, I feel pretty good about him.

]]> by: gmschmidty http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-212 Mon, 07 Aug 2006 12:32:47 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-212 Hey, 2004_champs: I forget how Petey did last time he faced an AL team. Can you remind me? Petey was my favorite Red Sox player ever but it is patently foolish to say you would rather have an aging pitcher in the twilight of his career (boasting 90-mph heater) than a young guy who by most accounts has the "stuff to be an ace." That being said, it would also be silly not to ask what the problem is with Beckett, because even given all of his stuff, he has failed to live up to the hype thus far in his career. I agree with the sentiments expressed here by others. Schill has got to continue to take him under his wing, and Beckett has got to have the humility to accept that as a favor, and not a shot to his manhood. More importantly, he has got to stop being so stubborn with his fastball. If he doesn't learn to rely more on some breaking balls, his fastball does not have enough of a tail to be considered his "out pitch." Just ask Jermaine Dye. Geoffrey Hey, 2004_champs: I forget how Petey did last time he faced an AL team. Can you remind me? Petey was my favorite Red Sox player ever but it is patently foolish to say you would rather have an aging pitcher in the twilight of his career (boasting 90-mph heater) than a young guy who by most accounts has the “stuff to be an ace.” That being said, it would also be silly not to ask what the problem is with Beckett, because even given all of his stuff, he has failed to live up to the hype thus far in his career. I agree with the sentiments expressed here by others. Schill has got to continue to take him under his wing, and Beckett has got to have the humility to accept that as a favor, and not a shot to his manhood. More importantly, he has got to stop being so stubborn with his fastball. If he doesn’t learn to rely more on some breaking balls, his fastball does not have enough of a tail to be considered his “out pitch.” Just ask Jermaine Dye.

Geoffrey

]]> by: Carson http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-208 Mon, 07 Aug 2006 02:47:06 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-208 Seth - I believe Al Nipper, the Red Sox pitching coach, bears some blame for the problems of Josh Beckett. The kid can throw hard, but he can't pitch. Nipper should be teaching him some new pitches, how to set up hitters, etc. The fans might be falling for the tough guy act now, (after all, Varitek's been living off shoving his glove in A-Rod's face for a season and half), but it won't be long before a 5.00+ ERA leads to heavy booing. And I don't see Beckett holding up to well under heavy home crowd abuse. Seth - I believe Al Nipper, the Red Sox pitching coach, bears some blame for the problems of Josh Beckett. The kid can throw hard, but he can’t pitch. Nipper should be teaching him some new pitches, how to set up hitters, etc.

The fans might be falling for the tough guy act now, (after all, Varitek’s been living off shoving his glove in A-Rod’s face for a season and half), but it won’t be long before a 5.00+ ERA leads to heavy booing. And I don’t see Beckett holding up to well under heavy home crowd abuse.

]]> by: johnw http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-207 Sun, 06 Aug 2006 22:51:11 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2006/08/04/yo-josh-shut-up-and-listen-or-welcome-to-the-espn-cover-curse/#comment-207 I haven't looked up the numbers, but there seems to be a strong resemblance between the career arcs of Beckett and Schilling -- who, until he got into his late 20s, failed to tap his huge potential. It can take pitchers years to master their craft... and indeed, considering the burnout rate of pitchers who are successful at young ages, you might be better off in the long run with a pitcher who takes some time to learn the job. The acquisitions of Beckett, Crisp and Pena are part of a coherent strategy: build up the farm system, acquire pre-prime talent with star potential, and fill in the gaps with (relatively) low-cost veterans. The strategy, like any other, is not without risk. Beckett may turn out to be Schilling II; he may recall the 2003 World Series as the high point of his career. Crisp could become the next Johnny Damon or the next Mickey Rivers. Pena may be the next Manny Ramirez or the next Rob Deer. All three are good bets to attain or approach the top end of the scale. The signing of Clement was the same kind of move on a slightly lower level: a good gamble that, so far, has turned out poorly. Any particular move may turn out badly, but the overall strategy is sound. We'll know in two or three years. I haven’t looked up the numbers, but there seems to be a strong resemblance between the career arcs of Beckett and Schilling — who, until he got into his late 20s, failed to tap his huge potential. It can take pitchers years to master their craft… and indeed, considering the burnout rate of pitchers who are successful at young ages, you might be better off in the long run with a pitcher who takes some time to learn the job.

The acquisitions of Beckett, Crisp and Pena are part of a coherent strategy: build up the farm system, acquire pre-prime talent with star potential, and fill in the gaps with (relatively) low-cost veterans. The strategy, like any other, is not without risk. Beckett may turn out to be Schilling II; he may recall the 2003 World Series as the high point of his career. Crisp could become the next Johnny Damon or the next Mickey Rivers. Pena may be the next Manny Ramirez or the next Rob Deer. All three are good bets to attain or approach the top end of the scale. The signing of Clement was the same kind of move on a slightly lower level: a good gamble that, so far, has turned out poorly.

Any particular move may turn out badly, but the overall strategy is sound. We’ll know in two or three years.

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