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Comments on: Destiny’s children: The ‘04 Sox and the ‘07 Sox go head-to-head http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/ Media, Baseball, Boston, the Red Sox, Music, Literature, and Mnookins Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:01:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: daltonjones http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-222180 Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:31:03 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-222180 On comparing the '04 slogan and (lack of an) '07 slogan, a small point: "Cowboy Up!" was '03. ... Don't believe it survived into '04, when there was only, if memory serves, Schilling's "Why Not Us?" T-shirts. On comparing the ‘04 slogan and (lack of an) ‘07 slogan, a small point: “Cowboy Up!” was ‘03. … Don’t believe it survived into ‘04, when there was only, if memory serves, Schilling’s “Why Not Us?” T-shirts.

]]> by: royco31 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-222086 Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:55:24 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-222086 Just to elaborate on '04 Ortiz vs. '07 Ortiz. Well, first, I would hardly call his '04 season on of the all-time great years. Second, not only was his season this year clearly better for him than 3 years ago, but this was actually his finest season yet (I say this knowing full well his HR output was down 35% this year). His true power numbers may be down but his slg is still a tidy .621 - higher than in '04. And his OPS is the highest it's ever been (1.066 vs .983 in '04 - HUGE edge to '07). So what's the secret to his success? He had a .445 obp!!! Much higher than his .380 rate 3 seasons ago, and his bb/k rate almost doubled in that time span. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's had much more command/discipline over the strike zone every year since '04 and that he's improved every year since. His eqa in '04? .309. '07? .338, a pretty sizeable advantage by all accounts. And yes, it's even higher than his prolific and historic 2006 season - .326. It's not like we could point to defense to possibly even out the differences, so I just don't understand how it's even close between the 2 seasons, let alone the '04 edges him out! And before there are arguments about him being "clutch" in 2004, remember we're talking about the regular season, not playoffs. His wpa in 2004 was 3.51 vs. 4.81 this year, another decisive edge going to 'current' Papi vs. Huge Papi. And just for good measure, his rc/27 this year is more than 2 runs better than it was 3 years ago - 10.86 vs. 8.55. /rant I guess I just needed to get that off my chest, people simply do not realize how great a season David Ortiz is having/had simply because the HR's aren't there and I think that's actually quite a shame. He deserves a ton of credit for carrying this offense all year long (kudos to Lowell's fine season). Just to elaborate on ‘04 Ortiz vs. ‘07 Ortiz. Well, first, I would hardly call his ‘04 season on of the all-time great years. Second, not only was his season this year clearly better for him than 3 years ago, but this was actually his finest season yet (I say this knowing full well his HR output was down 35% this year). His true power numbers may be down but his slg is still a tidy .621 - higher than in ‘04. And his OPS is the highest it’s ever been (1.066 vs .983 in ‘04 - HUGE edge to ‘07). So what’s the secret to his success? He had a .445 obp!!! Much higher than his .380 rate 3 seasons ago, and his bb/k rate almost doubled in that time span. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he’s had much more command/discipline over the strike zone every year since ‘04 and that he’s improved every year since. His eqa in ‘04? .309. ‘07? .338, a pretty sizeable advantage by all accounts. And yes, it’s even higher than his prolific and historic 2006 season - .326. It’s not like we could point to defense to possibly even out the differences, so I just don’t understand how it’s even close between the 2 seasons, let alone the ‘04 edges him out! And before there are arguments about him being “clutch” in 2004, remember we’re talking about the regular season, not playoffs. His wpa in 2004 was 3.51 vs. 4.81 this year, another decisive edge going to ‘current’ Papi vs. Huge Papi. And just for good measure, his rc/27 this year is more than 2 runs better than it was 3 years ago - 10.86 vs. 8.55. /rant

I guess I just needed to get that off my chest, people simply do not realize how great a season David Ortiz is having/had simply because the HR’s aren’t there and I think that’s actually quite a shame. He deserves a ton of credit for carrying this offense all year long (kudos to Lowell’s fine season).

]]> by: djslippyb http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-219997 Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:45:04 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-219997 every time manny comes up I still believe he will do something great. his swing is a work of art. and papi is a much better hitter against the shift now than in 04. it all depends on the starting pitching and we have as good a three man rotation as ever. every time manny comes up I still believe he will do something great. his swing is a work of art.

and papi is a much better hitter against the shift now than in 04.

it all depends on the starting pitching and we have as good a three man rotation as ever.

]]> by: CursedNoMore http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-219495 Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:20:24 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-219495 Seth, by your own account in your book, Pedro Martinez was a legit Cy Young candidate until the final four starts of the season, when he inexplicably turned into John Burkett. Despite that, he still finished the year 16-9 with a 3.90 ERA, a 1.17 WHIP and having the confidence of a Nation, who were expecting him to be part of the best 1-2 starting punch in all of postseason baseball. Besides the obvious statistical difference (with Matsuzaka at 15-12, 4.40 ERA and 1.32 WHIP), Dice-K has most people HOPING he can do his best -- BIG difference. Pedro was a much better # 2 than Dice-K. Seth, by your own account in your book, Pedro Martinez was a legit Cy Young candidate until the final four starts of the season, when he inexplicably turned into John Burkett. Despite that, he still finished the year 16-9 with a 3.90 ERA, a 1.17 WHIP and having the confidence of a Nation, who were expecting him to be part of the best 1-2 starting punch in all of postseason baseball. Besides the obvious statistical difference (with Matsuzaka at 15-12, 4.40 ERA and 1.32 WHIP), Dice-K has most people HOPING he can do his best — BIG difference. Pedro was a much better # 2 than Dice-K.

]]> by: Jack http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-218146 Tue, 02 Oct 2007 00:33:16 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-218146 Wait...you wrote a book? Wait…you wrote a book?

]]> by: amos http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-217932 Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:02:15 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-217932 I guess I'm not sure why 2004 Ortiz is Huge Papi and 07 is only Big Papi. Sure he hit more homeruns in 04, but if you're just looking at the regular season, I think you've got to say that 07 was at least as good. 04: .301/.380/.603 07: .332/.445/.621 all in about the same number of PAs. How was regular season Papi so much better in 04? I guess I’m not sure why 2004 Ortiz is Huge Papi and 07 is only Big Papi. Sure he hit more homeruns in 04, but if you’re just looking at the regular season, I think you’ve got to say that 07 was at least as good.

04: .301/.380/.603
07: .332/.445/.621

all in about the same number of PAs. How was regular season Papi so much better in 04?

]]> by: tinisoli http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-217889 Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:24:37 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2007/10/01/04-v-07/#comment-217889 I agree with most of the post except for the tangential arguments about who deserved to be playoff and WS MVPs. Manny could've lost the latter to Foulke, but not Bellhorn. Bellhorn had some bombs but Manny was very productive and he nailed Larry Walker at the plate (most exciting play of the WS, in my opinion). Plus, he had foreseen his Series MVP in the Olympia Sports commercial. Without Ortiz' heroics in the ALCS, the Sox do not get to the World Series. Foulke was good, but Papi enabled him to make those appearances. Two walk-off hits = MVP. Foulke was vitally important, but Papi is the one who turned the tide more than any other. I agree with most of the post except for the tangential arguments about who deserved to be playoff and WS MVPs. Manny could’ve lost the latter to Foulke, but not Bellhorn. Bellhorn had some bombs but Manny was very productive and he nailed Larry Walker at the plate (most exciting play of the WS, in my opinion). Plus, he had foreseen his Series MVP in the Olympia Sports commercial. Without Ortiz’ heroics in the ALCS, the Sox do not get to the World Series. Foulke was good, but Papi enabled him to make those appearances. Two walk-off hits = MVP. Foulke was vitally important, but Papi is the one who turned the tide more than any other.

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