Comments on: Manny being bye-bye http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/ Media, Baseball, Boston, the Red Sox, Music, Literature, and Mnookins Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:00:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: tinisoli http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-635463 tinisoli Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:17:36 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-635463 What interested me the most about the post-trade commentary was the oft-repeated idea that Manny had “won” or that the Sox had “caved” to the childish demands of a petulant, fickle athlete. Let’s face it: MLB players have tremendous leverage these days. If and when a player decides to start jogging down the line and laughing about errors and playing only when he feels like it, there’s only so much that can be done to truly rein in that player or set him straight. What was the front office going to do, try to void his contract? I don’t think so. The players union would’ve come to Manny’s defense, and in any event, the Sox season would have been destroyed if Manny sat out the rest of the season or forced the Sox to take legal action. Manny doesn’t seem to have considered how much money his antics may have cost him in terms of future employment, but maybe Scott Boras really is smarter than all of us and he already knows where Manny will be next season and for how much money. Or maybe Manny would happily and knowingly forego millions of dollars just for the opportunity to go out to eat with Juliana, Manny Jr., and Manuelito without being hassled by overzealous fans. Whatever the case, the Sox made the wiser risk in this case, and so far it seems to be paying off. Bay’s compact, quick swing seems tailor made for Fenway, and his salary is awfully palatable. Meanwhile, Manny may or may not abide by Joe Torre’s haircut rules, and he’ll probably be DHing fulltime in the Bronx next year. What interested me the most about the post-trade commentary was the oft-repeated idea that Manny had “won” or that the Sox had “caved” to the childish demands of a petulant, fickle athlete. Let’s face it: MLB players have tremendous leverage these days. If and when a player decides to start jogging down the line and laughing about errors and playing only when he feels like it, there’s only so much that can be done to truly rein in that player or set him straight. What was the front office going to do, try to void his contract? I don’t think so. The players union would’ve come to Manny’s defense, and in any event, the Sox season would have been destroyed if Manny sat out the rest of the season or forced the Sox to take legal action. Manny doesn’t seem to have considered how much money his antics may have cost him in terms of future employment, but maybe Scott Boras really is smarter than all of us and he already knows where Manny will be next season and for how much money. Or maybe Manny would happily and knowingly forego millions of dollars just for the opportunity to go out to eat with Juliana, Manny Jr., and Manuelito without being hassled by overzealous fans. Whatever the case, the Sox made the wiser risk in this case, and so far it seems to be paying off. Bay’s compact, quick swing seems tailor made for Fenway, and his salary is awfully palatable. Meanwhile, Manny may or may not abide by Joe Torre’s haircut rules, and he’ll probably be DHing fulltime in the Bronx next year.

]]> By: Shalomar http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-634125 Shalomar Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:04:41 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-634125 In the plus column, you forget to note Manny's playoff stats. In the 04 and 07 playoffs, Manny hit .350 with 6 HRs, 27 RBIs, and an OPS over 1.000. That's clutch. Let's face it, the Sox would not have 2 rings without Manny. He's a freak and a solipsist, but he's also one of the top 10 hitters of all time and his legacy should primarily be based on what he did in the batters box to help his team win. In the plus column, you forget to note Manny’s playoff stats.

In the 04 and 07 playoffs, Manny hit .350 with 6 HRs, 27 RBIs, and an OPS over 1.000. That’s clutch.

Let’s face it, the Sox would not have 2 rings without Manny. He’s a freak and a solipsist, but he’s also one of the top 10 hitters of all time and his legacy should primarily be based on what he did in the batters box to help his team win.

]]> By: branatical http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-630478 branatical Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:15:40 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-630478 Definitely, Youks reaction said it all. Look at his reaction to Bay's triple. I love Manny and I am sad to see him go. He is so great and can be so fun to watch. I would have loved to have seen him retire a Red Sox and have his number hanging on the side of Fenway, but that's wishful thinking for a bygone baseball era. This was inevitable, maybe premature but the end had to come at some point. It's like a tough breakup. In the end, Manny tried to come back, but the damage was done and Theo wouldn't have him. I hope that Ortiz can get on, and I am a little concerned about his immediate reactions. I think Ortiz fed off of Manny. Manny somehow reassured Ortiz that Big Papi is the man. I also do not want to see Manny DHing in the Bronx next year. Seth, would love to hear your thoughts on the Nomar reaction. You've wrote extensivley about his trade. It's typical and somewhat pathetic to see him still crying foul. But this does beg the question, can or will a Red Sox ever leave the team in honor? With Varitek's decline and contract near it's end, we may have another situation coming up, then there is Ortiz. It seems our pinstriped friends find a way to take care of their own, even if it's not in the best interest of winning. The Posada deal is looking really bad right now, but was it still the right thing to do? We're the sentimental fans, at least Theo is not. Got to hand it to him, even this time Henry didn't want Manny to go but Theo held to his convictions. It's worked in the past. Definitely, Youks reaction said it all. Look at his reaction to Bay’s triple.

I love Manny and I am sad to see him go. He is so great and can be so fun to watch. I would have loved to have seen him retire a Red Sox and have his number hanging on the side of Fenway, but that’s wishful thinking for a bygone baseball era.

This was inevitable, maybe premature but the end had to come at some point. It’s like a tough breakup. In the end, Manny tried to come back, but the damage was done and Theo wouldn’t have him. I hope that Ortiz can get on, and I am a little concerned about his immediate reactions. I think Ortiz fed off of Manny. Manny somehow reassured Ortiz that Big Papi is the man. I also do not want to see Manny DHing in the Bronx next year.

Seth, would love to hear your thoughts on the Nomar reaction. You’ve wrote extensivley about his trade. It’s typical and somewhat pathetic to see him still crying foul. But this does beg the question, can or will a Red Sox ever leave the team in honor? With Varitek’s decline and contract near it’s end, we may have another situation coming up, then there is Ortiz. It seems our pinstriped friends find a way to take care of their own, even if it’s not in the best interest of winning. The Posada deal is looking really bad right now, but was it still the right thing to do?

We’re the sentimental fans, at least Theo is not. Got to hand it to him, even this time Henry didn’t want Manny to go but Theo held to his convictions. It’s worked in the past.

]]> By: maranara http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-630275 maranara Sat, 02 Aug 2008 03:27:36 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-630275 What are your thoughts on the news today that Theo met with "team veterans" Wednesday night, who told him that they didn't feel like they could count on Manny? To me, that's the moment when Theo realized he HAD to trade Manny. Look at Youk's reaction to the win tonight - I think this really did lift a weight off of the team's shoulders. What are your thoughts on the news today that Theo met with “team veterans” Wednesday night, who told him that they didn’t feel like they could count on Manny? To me, that’s the moment when Theo realized he HAD to trade Manny. Look at Youk’s reaction to the win tonight - I think this really did lift a weight off of the team’s shoulders.

]]> By: floridagirl25 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-629635 floridagirl25 Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:20:22 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-629635 Good stuff, just like all the Manny posts this week. I don't care much for idle speculation and rumors, but I'm very interested in the business of baseball. Just like any deal, Sox management has to look at both sides of the balance sheet, plus the intangibles, and make the best decision. As a fan, I can't help but feel some resentment towards Manny for putting "my" team in this positon. It didn't have to be this way. Good stuff, just like all the Manny posts this week. I don’t care much for idle speculation and rumors, but I’m very interested in the business of baseball. Just like any deal, Sox management has to look at both sides of the balance sheet, plus the intangibles, and make the best decision.

As a fan, I can’t help but feel some resentment towards Manny for putting “my” team in this positon. It didn’t have to be this way.

]]> By: jeffreynye http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-629617 jeffreynye Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:58:32 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-629617 Why is it "amazing" that Manny has never faced Chamberlain? Chamberlain hasn't even been in the league for a full year yet, and has only faced the Red Sox twice as a starter. Chamberlain additionally faced the Red Sox only three times as a reliever 4.1 IP), and Manny did played in one of those games, but didn't face him. Why is it “amazing” that Manny has never faced Chamberlain? Chamberlain hasn’t even been in the league for a full year yet, and has only faced the Red Sox twice as a starter. Chamberlain additionally faced the Red Sox only three times as a reliever 4.1 IP), and Manny did played in one of those games, but didn’t face him.

]]> By: BostonYankeeFan http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-629616 BostonYankeeFan Fri, 01 Aug 2008 15:58:29 +0000 http://www.sethmnookin.com/blog/2008/08/01/manny-being-bye-bye/#comment-629616 You really hit the nail on the head; the Sox are not in a worse position now without Manny. There's a small offensive drop-off between Manny and Bay, but it's almost negligble. Although Bay's fielding has fallen off the past couple of years, he's still an upgrade from Manny. Plus, they have Bay guaranteed next year, at a very low salary. All in all, a great deal for the Sox. They traded a headache, got an All-Star leftfielder, and gave up two prospects who weren't in their plans anyway. You really hit the nail on the head; the Sox are not in a worse position now without Manny. There’s a small offensive drop-off between Manny and Bay, but it’s almost negligble. Although Bay’s fielding has fallen off the past couple of years, he’s still an upgrade from Manny. Plus, they have Bay guaranteed next year, at a very low salary.

All in all, a great deal for the Sox. They traded a headache, got an All-Star leftfielder, and gave up two prospects who weren’t in their plans anyway.

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